Thursday, 10 December 2009

Those pesky UFO/chemtrail/911 conspiracy people


There has been an interesting discussion in one of the blogs I follow - the Big Island Chronicle. It's one of the best blogs out there, especially for those of us who live on the Big Island of Hawai`i.

One recent post has resulted in several comments, many of which are suspect as there was a deluge of anonymous comments all saying the same thing, but this person's comments really caught my attention. butlincat, like many UFO/chemtrail/911 conspiracy theorists loves to draw attention away from the nonsense they post by including numerous videos, pictures and bright colours that do nothing other than distract readers from the lack of evidence or verifiable facts that they present. You only have to look at his blog to to see it's just another conspiracy theorist who loves to deluge the reader with frighteningly bright colours.

I've commented a few times in the the Big Island Chronicle's article and expressed some of my views. As I expected, some of the comments have been met with some very strange replies and as usual a bunch of insults. Butlincat thinks I called him an imbecile when in fact I never said such a thing, but in return I'm a foolish ignorant sheep.

I've issued a challenge to Butlincat. He says the US borders will be closed by 31st December this year and I say they won't. I've given my word that I'll admit I'm wrong if indeed the borders do close and challenged butlincat to do the same if he is wrong. That's when he came out with the insults.

So, here it is again, butlincat, but it's my blog this time. I'll say I'm wrong if the US closes its borders on 31 Dec and if they don't, you'll say you're wrong. Deal?

Update: butlincat's latest response to my challenge in the Big Island Chronicle's article is "go away". So much for standing up for what you believe in. This is just another conspiracy theorist who runs away when given the opportunity to present evidence to support their case and hasn't got the guts to stand behind their own claims. What a surprise.

16 comments:

Protege said...

Aw Tom, this must be very annoying to you. It is never fun to be insulted. Sometimes it is just best to "walk away".
By the way, the picture you post here (sans the UFO;) resembles very much a picture in my Astronomy book, also taken on Hawaii. I will post it on Thursday next week, if you care to take a look.;)
Zuzana

Richard Jesse Watson said...

Hey Tom, I'm visiting from Zuzana'a blog. (Hi Z.) I am thrilled to find your blog. I have spent a lot of time on the big island, and I love the various eco-systems. Mauna Kea really does feel like Queen of the Earth. My dad was a physicist, but made telescopes as a hobby. What you guys witness up there is absolutely mind blowing and has a "sacredness" to it, if you know what I mean. You are seeing back in time to the beginning, and seeing such distance, such grandeur, I would be undone to do what you are doing.

navychappy said...

Tom,
I have been following the Big Island Chronicle also, as my wife & I are moving to Kona in April. I have been working hard to educate myself to my new home and learn what I can about the new Life I have chosen.

I have had to deal with extreme view people my whole life in Northeastern California and what i have learned and what you already know is that you can not have a rational conversation with an irrational person.

I liked what you had to say on the blog, and I fell into the trap of trying to talk to them and did not like it. I have tagged your blog and will be following you too. I hope to visit the observatory in the near future and see the work that you are doing. I find astronomy to be a very interesting look at life not only here, but in our universe.

Aloha & Mahalo

Terry

Devany said...

Go Tom Go!

~dvd www.myhawaiianhome.blogspot.com

Tom said...

Zuzana - it's not the insults that annoy me although I hate the hypocrisy of someone having a go at people for perceived insults and then letting fly with their own. It's the lack of critical thinking and what seems to be a complete failure of the education system that really annoys me!

I'm looking forward to your picture!

Richard - thanks so much for popping by! Frankly, there is no place on the planet like Mauna Kea in my opinion, it's a very special place with it's own fantastic views and history and, as you say, a place to view the universe and look back in time.

I hope you had wonderful times on the Big Island, it's a very beautiful place!

Terry - thanks for stopping by and thanks for probably the most sensible post on the BIC thread about vaccinations.

You'll have a great time on the Kona side of the island, lots of fantastic weather and a very special kind of beauty (I live on the windward side). I would be more than happy if you felt like dropping me a line at some point (my email is available via my blog profile). On occasion I do take local people to the summit for a tour and perhaps I can do the same for you one day!

Devany - I have to say I agree with Terry about the inability of of having a rational discussion with irrational people. I've done the skepticism thing for many years but in this case there seem to be dozens of irrational people all saying the same thing and I know it'll be a pointless effort to even attempt to make them open their minds. On the other hand, butlincat made a very specific prediction and I won't forget it!

Tom

navychappy said...

Tom,
Thank you for your kind words. I really think that my critical thinking instructor from college would have smacked me on the back of the head for trying to talk with an irrational person about a critical issue. But we alway have to try, sometimes it works.

I would really like to make contact...I went to your profile and the email link did not work, but my email is navychappy@yahoo.com (temporary until I get moved to Kona). Drop me a line, I always look forward to good conversations and would like to eventually meet you on the Island and take a tour of the observatory. I would find that fascinating.

Keep up the good work on you blog...I do enjoy hearing of other's lives on the Big Island.

Aloha & Mahalo

Terry

Tom said...

Terry - I've dropped you a line. Let me know if you don't get it.

Tom

lobrien said...

The interesting thing is that the tinfoilist would almost certainly accuse YOU of lacking critical thinking skills, that he or she is a free-thinker willing to look at uncomfortable facts, while it's YOU who blindly abide to ridiculous facts.

The lack of border-closing by black-helicoptered troops of the New World Order on Dec 31 of this year will not dissuade them. One historical tidbit about doomsday prophets is that when they give a "date certain" for the end of the world and it doesn't come, their flocks increase in size. It's happened time and time again.

I don't know if the best thing in the world is to roll one's eyes and move along, which can leave the impression that extremist views are commonplace (and, in turn, can make them more commonplace), but I do know that it's a fool's errand to try to change their mind by rational debate.

navychappy said...

Tom,
I did get your email, and have responded.

I have been further following the BIC thread and boy they have gotten even more abrasive...the loonies have really come out now and Wow!

Like I said before, and lobrien stated also...You can not have a rational conversation with an irrational person...they just dig their heels in and claim they are righter then you are.

I will not comment further then that blog since I posted yesterday. The response I got came from one small paragraph;

"The proper definition of insanity is, “Doing the same thing over and over and over, expecting different results.” I am observing entries from the same people, making the same arguments over & over & over, expecting the other side to change their mind. It is not going to happen."

hpp responded with a reference to cooking a pig in a pit and how it is different every time...the kooks will only respond to the small tid-bit that they have an answer for and ignore the rest of the truthful information...that is how just justify their errant claims.

Mahalo,

Terry

P.S. I have not seen Butlincat in the latest posts, I wonder if your challenge scared him away...or he is just hiding and hoping no one remembers your challenge!

T

Tom said...

lobrien - I've been in this skepticism vs. woo woo thing for a long time but what you say is very true.

There's little doubt that your real "true believer" will not change their mind even if every point they make is shown to be utter tosh. They'll just ignore that and carry on and usually return to the same points later when they hope that people have forgotten that they were shown to be wrong.

I see it over and over again. The fake moon landing and 911 conspiracy fruitcakes are the best ones if you want to witness this. I don't understand the mentality but it exists.

I know I won't change their minds, but sometimes the odd rational point in a discussion, the one that takes the first bit of the foundation away and starts the collapse is the one I hope other, more rational people might see even if they might not be familiar with the subject.

Again, thank you so much for your comments, I really appreciate them!

Tom

Tom said...

Terry - I very much doubt butlincat will be back until the the same topic is raised in a few months, and then it'll be a prediction that the borders will close in 2011. He is, in my opinion, one very deluded conspiracy nut and there's nothing that'll change his mind.

Today in the local rag there was an article about H1N1 vaccinations on the island and people are getting them, which is of course a good thing. There was a comment to the online article that was perhaps a little insensitive but I'll admit it made me laugh and it's how I feel:

"And just what makes those incompetent weasels on the council experts on this? Anything they are against I would assume is something you should do, and vice versa. No health care advice from people w/ fruit hats for me, thank you very much! "

Just like this person, I do not take health care or scientific advice from people with fruit on their head.

http://www.hawaiitribune-herald.com/articles/2009/12/11/local_news/local04.txt

Tom

Tiffany Edwards Hunt said...

Hi Tom,

Mahalo.

I'm growing weary of the conversation on that thread. Hope you are well.

Tom said...

Tiffany - I don't blame you for feeling weary. What an unbelievable mess the comments have turned into. Is there any way you can turn off comments for a post apart from using moderation?

I won't be back in that thread and hopefully that'll be a relief for you!

Thank you for popping by and one day I'll pop by your store and say hello. I warn you though that I'm no surfer so don't expect a sale!

All the best,
Tom

Tom said...

PS. And shock, horror, there appear to be bona fide sock puppets on Tiffany's thread (which was kind of obvious even without seeing the IP addresses).

Tiffany - I feel for you. It was a subject that deserved discussion but now you appear to have attracted the more serious loons. Your blog doesn't deserve that.

Tom

butlincat said...

haha honestly,if u think im running or hiding from idiots like you who twist words and put words into peoples mouths ur more stupid than i think u are already - all i did was to try and warn people by speaking of entimes777s vid about the info she got from her military bosses and im accused of all kinds of bullshit - you sustain your own childish lying egos by attacking and ridiculing any and everybody who doesnt conform to your sheepish ways,and thats why youll be the 1st in the FEMA camps your government has built for you - because youre stupid - and i never make statements like u accuse me of cos theres always mental cripples like you ready to attack people for spreading lies,when in reality i pass on info i get from friends and other sources which nearly always is received with gratitude that numerous emails state that i have received - - you can tell by ur smallminded attitudes ur a bunch of assoles who probably voted for and think George Bush and his lot are great blokes - what blind fools you are - did u know he switched all ur gold lolol!!! Anyway,ill thank you to stay away from my sites etc - you arent welcome and are on your own as far as im concerned. Have a great day!! schmocks

Tom said...

Please gloat if the borders close on Dec 31st as you predicted. In the meantime, you nutty little conspiracy theorist, chemtrail lunatic and 911 fruitcake, I hope you have a very merry christmas!

And as a Christmas present to you, I'll be sure to visit your sites over the Christmas weekend. Have a good one!

Tom

PS. By the way, did you proof read your rather incoherent missive? You just admitted to spreading lies. Good job!